SPEAKER_01 0:00

Love isn't a part of Islam.

Sharif Faizullah 0:02

She is not alone.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

That's so heartbreaking. We fall in love, not rise in love. Building your happily ever hereafter. How are we supposed to get married if we never talk to boys? Who do I want to spend my hereafter with?

SPEAKER_00 0:15

They never say their husband.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Rank up that marriage that MBA divorce proof your future marriage today. Chapter 4, my favorite love story. Have you heard the story before? No, I actually hadn't. This was the first time I'd even heard of it.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Same. This is like my first ever interaction with this story. It's just so beautiful, Supana Like. Genuinely, I was so moved by that.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

This is like a real love story, and it's such a cute little heartwarming story, and especially like saying that you're already engaged to marry your husband in Janna. That just makes my heart flutter because it's just really cute.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I don't know if you've heard when you get to Jannah, you get to pick who your husband will be. All the people around me, they're always making jokes about like, oh my gosh, when I get to Jenna, I'm gonna pick Sharokan or I'm gonna pick Zayn Molik or someone random. They never say their husband, they never say, Oh yeah, I'm gonna pick him again. Love him so much. It's always someone different, it's always someone random. In fact, that's a bit controversial. If you're not choosing your husband, then why? And so I think it's so cute and beautiful to have an example of an actual lasting true love.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

In the West, I guess our favorite love stories are from TV shows or from books, and they're so unrealistic. The girl dropped her books in the corridor, and then the guy helped her pick them up, and then they made eye contact, and two weeks later they're married with five kids. It's just so unrealistic.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

I love that the goal here is to teach young women to find that everlasting true love because our examples of true love or good relationships are so skewed, especially now that we have so many more examples, you get to see into everyone's relationship. I know not everything we see is true, but they're putting out all these examples of these guys and their relationships, and then it comes out that they actually were horrible relationships and they did not end well. So I think this is an actual example of a good relationship that people should strive for, and I like that that's the goal here.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I kind of feel like in some maybe more traditional relationships, you're not allowed to say that you love your husband or that the husband loves the wife. It's taboo. So this obviously just goes against that stereotype, but that stereotype is so stupid as well. Like obviously, you're married to them, you're not gonna like absolutely hate who you're married to. I just think it's so bizarre that you have to act like, oh no, I don't love my husband. Oh, we just lived together, we're just roommates. Like, you've got five kids, you're not just roommates.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I feel like it's taboo to really, really, really be in love with your husband because it's like, okay, I don't have those role models or I don't have those examples. This isn't the case for everyone, but sometimes older marriages, they were super, super arranged. Some of them have never seen their husband and they literally just signed NICA papers and then they had six kids together, and it's like, well, we never knew each other, we grew to love and respect each other, which is amazing. Everyone should strive to continuously grow and love and respect their spouse. But to have those examples of grandparents who maybe didn't have true love marriages, or even some of our parents. It's weird for you to be affectionate because maybe you didn't see that growing up, but there's a complete difference in the type of marriage that you have.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

And it's seen as very taboo, even just to hold hands, or even like in the middle of the wedding or if you're outside the wedding hall to speak to your husband or wife, have a little chit-chat. Because our weddings are quite segregated. It's like, oh, but they're not 16-year-olds and we're not in the high school playground. They've been married for 15 years, we know they talk. Obviously, they do. Like it's so silly.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

I see, like in recent younger generation marriages and stuff, we're straying away from that stereotype too. People are finding their own husbands now. It's not as taboo to be affectionate, like they go out. I like that we're moving away from that, and it's not as taboo to be affectionate.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Definitely, and I think that's gonna be something that is then seen by kids and then is passed on to them that this is what real love actually looks like, and they'll realize that things on TV or things that they're reading or seeing in media, that's not actually real love, and they'll be able to distinguish between the two a lot better.

Sharif Faizullah 3:57

So, this idea of love before marriage, I wasn't sold on it fully. Let me share this quick story. I wrote an email to my sister about a certain guy that she was considering. I'm like, I know this guy a little bit more. Probably not a good choice for you. So I wrote a long email to her explaining because I wasn't able to explain it verbally, it's just a lot of emotion. She somehow shared that with her friend. So her friend wrote an email to me. What she said to this day, it stuck to me. She said, I know there is no such thing as love in Islam. This is like 17, 18, 20 years ago. I'm telling you, she is not alone. There are so many people growing up fully with this idea that, oh, there's no love in Islam. For someone to grow up with the idea there is no romantic love in Islam, that is like, oh my god, that's how sad. That just why? So that is the first thing I want to debunk. If somebody being together for the rest of their eternity, if that's not true love, tell me what is. So let's just get that idea of our head, like love is tabu or something we're not talking about. Even Rasulullah mentioned talking about Khadija radiallahu ana that in Nikad Ruziktu Hibbahal. I was gifted with her love. Meaning that Allah put love for her in his heart, that was a gift from Allah. And in the Quran, Allah talks about Mawadda and Rahmah, love and mercy, passion and compassion. So think about it. The concept is everywhere in Islam, but because of our ignorance, because we somehow live in a bubble somewhere, I was a victim of that mindset. No one taught me that. It took me many years to realize, well, you know what? There is romantic love.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

I find it so heartbreaking that people out there think that romance doesn't exist in Islam.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

I think a lot of people do have that perception that love isn't a part of Islam. But that is when people are mixing their culture in with Islamic teachings.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

We were just talking about this in a class. It's called Islamic Cultures in the US, and we're discussing different cultures that dilute Islam. It's really sad, honestly, that's happening. But especially with Daisy's, what I've seen is we say so many things, and it's like, oh well, that's Gunan, that's haram, and this is this. And it's like, you made that up. Your daddy, like 30 years ago, made that up. You taught your kids, your kids taught their kids, and now we're all thinking that chapstick is haram. Nobody said that, and nobody thinks to dig any deeper. That's what like gets me is that we all just assume that, oh yeah, that's fine. That's totally fine. If you were to dig deeper and if you have a question, ask it. It's okay to have questions and question things. Go out, seek the answers, find the examples of things that resonate with you.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Genuinely, for example, this story is an Islamic story, it's not a made-up story. So if love wasn't something that was allowed in Islam between a husband and a wife, why would it be allowed during that time? Why would it be narrated? Why are there, I'm assuming, probably hundreds, thousands of hadiths talking about the Sahaba and the people of that time with their wives, the prophets with their wives? It just baffles me that people have come to this conclusion when there's all this evidence that love is allowed. Okay, I'm gonna see all this and I'm gonna come to a conclusion that husband and wife cannot love each other. Like it baffles me.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

I 100% agree that it's a cultural thing because everybody's gonna tell you, don't talk to boys, don't hold hands, and don't do this, and then you just assume that you can't do that even after marriage because you've grown up with all of these ideas, and then you put in a marriage and you're completely unprepared for intimacy, for romance, for love in general. And that's so heartbreaking. But yeah, there's so many examples of the prophet and had like he would drink from the same spot that his wife drank from, or if he woke up for salat and she was still sleeping, he'd be quieter to make sure she still got her rest. Like he was romantic. There was romance, there was intimacy, and that was in the time of like peak Islam. So for people to perpetuate that oh, love doesn't exist in Islam, you can't be romantic, you can't be intimate. Yes, you absolutely can.

Sharif Faizullah 7:45

I want you guys to question anything and everything that you hear about love, even the stuff that we say, things that you read in the book, just question it. Does it pass the basic logical common sense? Do you believe it because you thought about it or because somebody dumped it on you? Islam made it super simple, we culturally make it super complex.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

A story that just came to my mind, it's a personal story. When I used to go to mosques, our class had loads of different age ranges. So I think I was probably one of the eldest, about 17, but the youngest were probably like 10. And I remember once one of the younger girls had asked the teacher, something along the lines of like, How are we supposed to get married if we never talk to boys? And the way the teacher went off, she screamed the place down. And everyone was just in shock because it is a pretty valid question.

Sharif Faizullah 8:32

Very good question, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

And she was in tears, crying her eyes out, got sent to the head of the mosque, and then the head of the mosque had to sit her down, explain it to her, obviously the way it should have been explained in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Totally bad question, especially in that age group. That makes me so sad that they yelled at her and she was sad about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I think at that point it clicked in my head that this isn't right, that everyone in this room, all the girls in this room are expected to get married at some point, but we're not allowed to bring up that topic until what, like it's the Nigar Day, we're in our dress, then we're supposed to ask, Oh, I've got all these long lists of questions. Can I ask them now?

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Like it's so the ceremony, and like hey, by the way, what are we doing? Yeah, literally.

Sharif Faizullah 9:12

That idea of, oh, don't talk to boys. You're not allowed to talk to boys, but when you're in college after you graduate, we expect you to find like how do you go from there to there? That jump, there's no transition.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

The most controversial thing we're gonna put out there that you have to be single the right way. I think he compared it to training for a triathlon. Train for being single, married, and true love. And I feel like everyone forgets that you have to train to be single because you really do. Nobody ever teaches you how to be single, nobody ever teaches you exactly how to interact, how to react to interactions, the attention that you're receiving from guys. Nobody's gonna give you a step-by-step. And this really does provide you that step-by-step that hey, you get to choose what type of interactions you want to invite into your life and you get to pick where they go. And I feel like you have to really protect yourself there because if you don't, and we just go into like talking stages and halal dating, and you're talking to all these people, and like you're learning all that information about somebody else's husband, maybe. That's weird, guys. You're learning all that info about whom? Because if he's not the one.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

People need to stop this perception that being single is a bad thing. I think people view being single as bad and so don't work on themselves whilst they're single, and so just rush into a marriage and just focus on that rather than focusing about the position they're in now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

I agree, I agree. Even in my close circle, a lot of times you'll see that it's the moms or the grandmas that are like, you don't have anyone, you're not getting married. What do you mean? You're gonna expire. And we talk about this every chapter that you're gonna expire, but you're not gonna expire. I promise. I hate that they perpetuate that because when you force that importance of getting married so much, they're just gonna end up looking at themselves as desperate and going for whomever. That's just setting them up for failure later on. This chapter is all about not setting yourself up for failure, it's all about setting yourself up for the successes while being single, while being married, in the hereafter. And I feel like that's the important part. My friends, they're like, No, I need to find someone, I need to find someone, I need to find someone. Okay, but you're going for literally anyone, and then you want to like talk to these people, and they're like, Oh, but they're so fun to talk to. I don't want to give it up, but I'm like, but you see your future. No, what are you doing then? Why are you doing it?

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Like, move on. Yeah, I think some of it comes from the fact that because you've not validated yourself as a single person, you're then looking for someone else to validate you and then falling into that marriage, not because you love them, not because you think that they're good for you or they have the same qualities and morals as you, but just because they're validating you, and that alone is not a good enough reason to be in a marriage. So validate yourself as a single ghetto, and then you won't fall into that trap when you're married.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

When it comes to being single, it's not a bad thing. Communicate with your parents if they're pressuring you and really reflect. Be like, okay, why am I single? Is it by choice? What am I doing? Where am I on that scale of readiness that we talked about? Because these are all things that you can work on consistently. You can attain your goals, whether that be getting married, finding someone, graduating, getting a job, attaining all your goals and just constantly reflecting on who you are, what you want, is just gonna benefit you further. This training of being single. Then when you get married, you train again, you still keep reflecting. Then you reflect with someone else. You have a sounding board that, hey, okay, what do we want to do in this marriage? Who do we want to be in the hereafter? My favorite line, I think, from this chapter was building your happily ever hereafter. Because of the examples that we have right now, everybody wants their fairy tale happily ever after. And you think really Dunya-centric, if that makes sense. Everybody wants that perfect Pinterest marriage. You want your perfect Lenga for your wedding, and you want all the flowers and everything, which isn't wrong by any means. If you want to have a certain life for yourself here, that's awesome. But I feel like people forget, no, you want to choose a person that you want to spend eternity with. You don't want to be one of those people that's like, no, I'm gonna pick Zane Mollock. No, pick your husband. Make sure your husband is someone you actually want to be with for a long time, not someone you're settling for now.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

And I think people as well forget that your husband can be an entryway into Jenna for you as well. There was one line in this chapter that I really liked. It was we fall in love, not rise in love. When I read that, I just thought I need to take a minute because that is so true. Yeah, we should be rising in love. Why is it saying we fall in love? Because obviously falling is like a bad thing. You fall in love and you're inspired and you're motivated to be a better person. And if you're with someone who doesn't make you feel like that, or you're not selecting for those kind of traits, then you are gonna end up falling in love.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

When you trip and fall, it's a mistake, it's fleeting. I don't like that example that's perpetuated because people think it's like romantic because someone's gonna always be there to catch you. You're Prince Charming. The mistake there is when you fall for just anyone, you're not building for that happily ever hereafter. You don't want to just fall. You want to make sure that you're actually picking, like, okay, who do I want to spend my hereafter with? Who do I want in this life and the next? And then we're gonna rise together instead of just falling and hoping that it works out. That's why this book is so important to me. I genuinely love that there's a practical roadmap to everything because I feel like nobody thinks about it.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

That makes me feel so like warm and fuzzy because I like to see the plan. I like to know what we're going to do.

Sharif Faizullah 14:05

Hopefully, this book, this podcast you're listening to or you're watching, is your warm-up. We do that for all other areas of life, by the way. You don't go to college until you graduate from high school. That would be ludicrous. Unless you're a child genius, you're probably one in a billion. You don't do calculus until you know how to do basic math. But somehow we let our youngsters run around with somebody else's life with a whole future, not knowing anything about it. We don't even let them drive a car without a learner's permit. Before driving license, you need a learner's permit. To get a learner's permit, there are some rules and regulations you need to read and you need to pass a test. Wow, what an amazing concept. Why don't we do that here? You can get married, have kids, not knowing anything about parenting, and here is this human being that is depending on you for its survival and upbringing. In this century, how are we allowing millions of people to be doing these, making this decision, but no preparation? I think in Malaysia they have things like that where it's a requirement. The marriage official will not get you guys married until you take a premarital course or a premarital counseling. It is a requirement.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Do you know what their statistics are in terms of their marriage success rate?

Sharif Faizullah 15:17

Much better. Much better. They stay longer, they're much happier. You will see they're quite practicing, but they don't live in a bubble. From a younger age, they are taught to communicate with the opposite gender with respect, with that boundary.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Okay. What's everyone's biggest takeaway? I don't know if this applies to Sharif because you wrote the books. Did you have a takeaway from anything that me and Sana said? I was different.

Sharif Faizullah 15:38

I like you guys talked about being proud, single. Take full advantage of that with your friends. Learn, grow. Don't be in the mindset of, oh my god, I'm such a loser. I'm not married. There are a lot of married people thinking the same thing. They're like, man, I wish I did not get married. I'm telling you, I talk to these people. While you're single, you're miserable. And then when you get married, you're miserable. Oh god, just don't do that. Enjoy your singledom and learn the skills so you can enjoy your coupledom. Couplehood.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

I think just the whole concept of why we fall in love, not rise in love, just gave me an entire perspective shift. In this society, we are deemed to fall in love and that you're gonna make silly mistakes and your brain's just gonna leave your skull or whatever. Whereas our objective in love should be more than that, to become a better person and to make the other person better as well. And it's not the end of a journey, it's the kind of the continuation of both your journeys together, and you will rise together in that.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

My biggest takeaway is this is all your training. You should be asking questions, you should be learning, you should be seeking out answers, finding good examples of love, marriage, romance, all those things. You don't have to be what everyone else put the label on you as. You don't have to be miserable or single or a hopeless romantic or anything like that. You get to choose where you want to go from here. So choose positively.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Oh, when we get married, I'm going to change. He loves you so much, he's gonna change for me. Do not believe him. Listen to the red flags. I'm not your mom, I'm your wife. Why am I telling you what to do? Check their Instagram following. We all know why he's following her. Take the hint.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

You're a tyrant with a grant in your hand. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

He's a pro at this by now. What are you letting yourself in for?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Their husbands have these addictions and it's so so so heartbreaking.

Sharif Faizullah 17:24

So you trust and you verify.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

The goal here wasn't to just get married, it's to create a successful marriage.